A little Lord of the Rings fannishness... with Smallville connections....

[fajrdrako]

I was watching The Return of the King again this evening and loving it as much as ever, or more. A few observations:

1. I never noticed before that on the slopes of Mount Doom, Sam actually stabs Gollum - gets him with his knife right before Frodo goes running up to the entrance. I thought he'd just hit him, but it had seemed odd that he hit him hard enough to stop him from attacking again immediately. That explained a lot.



2. I have observed before, in my totally fangirlish way, how the relationship between Boromir and Faramir with Denethor reminds me of the relationship of Richard and Francis Crawford with Gavin Crawford; the older. protective brother, the father who hated the younger son and drove him away as if wishing his death. It struck me tonight, seeing it only a few days after Smallville's Memoria, that the realationship between Denethor and Faramir has echoes in the relationship between Lionel and Lex Luthor - the father who cannot be pleased, who will not offer his son the ove or respect that he most craves. And again, the father puts events in motion that could well cause the son's death, while the son outdoes himself in heroism in order to win the father's love - a futile effort. I suppose one could also offer the parallel that the unloved son in each case had a brother whom he loved but could not protect from death.
   
   Okay, it's not a rare theme in literature - loving brothers and cruel fathers. Obviously it's one I like.



3. I still can't quite follow what happens to the vial of the light of the star Earendil that Galadriel gives to Frodo. Sam uses it to fight Shelob. Do the Orcs get it with the rest of Frodo's goods?



4. I interpreted the very last scene of The Return of the King quite differently this time. It all ends with Sam returning home to The Shire, his beloved daughter in his arms and his loving wife beside him, and he says, "Well, I'm back." Probably because it followed my interpretation from the book, I had taken this to mean that Sam was finally able to relax, putting all hid ordeals and troubles behind him, finally able to find happiness and peace at home with his family and his garden. This time around, I though he looked - not happy - more troubled and torn, as if in his heart he really wanted to be sailing to Valinor with Frodo. It gives quite a different (and poignant) twist to the ending.



5. I loved Aragorn's "it is not this day" speech more than ever. I liked the Paths of the Dead more than ever. I liked the Black Ships more than ever, and I always did love them a lot. I liked Gollum less than before, and Sam more.



6. I can hardly wait for the DVD, and I wonder what the extended edition will be like.

Comments

[youraugustine.livejournal.com]

I had taken this to mean that Sam was finally able to relax, putting all hid ordeals and troubles behind him, finally able to find happiness and peace at home with his family and his garden

Really? I never got that - particularly not after I hit about twelve, read the various appendices and found out that he'd followed Frodo later on.

It never - and still doesn't, really - seem to me either one way or the other. It's just something that I've found worked into my own writings - after the adventure is over, after everything's done, after the Great Works have been put aside . . . you get back. You sit down, look around, say "I'm back." and go on. It's always felt like that for me.

Aragorn's speech is beautiful. I hear it in my mind when the track plays on the soundtrack.

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

I find it amazing and delightful that the one sentence of three words ("Well, I'm back") can have such depths of meaning and potential meaning. I think what happened was that on first reading I took it in a certain way, and never questioned that interpretation till now. You are right, of course, in view of the fact that we know he did ultimately follow Frodo.

I think when I have the DVD I will play Aragorn's speech over and over. I just love it. My friends and I call it his "St. Crispin's Day speech".

[rosiespark.livejournal.com]

I can hardly wait for the DVD, and I wonder what the extended edition will be like.

I read recently on TorN that it's over 4 hours long. ::happy sigh::

No reliable news of what scenes will be inserted/restored, though - just a lot of speculation. Has PJ actually started working on it, anyway?

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

No reliable news of what scenes will be inserted/restored, though - just a lot of speculation.

I think we all have a personal Wish List. I don't think my #1 wished-for scene was ever filmed - Aragorn using the Palantir - not surprising, since Tolkien alludes to it only tangentially, though the idea and the image is one of my favourite moments in the books. Failing that, my #1 desire is to see the Houses of Healing, to see Eowyn and Faramir reawakening to life under Aragorn's care. Wish #2 would be... hmm... probably the Eowyn/Faramir romance.

Has PJ actually started working on it, anyway?

I haven't heard. I'm hearing very little about it these days - and I'm curious. I haven't even heard a reliable release date.

[rosiespark.livejournal.com]

Aaargh! Just lost a lengthy reply to this when my computer crashed. ::sulk:: No, actually, I'm incapable of sulking this evening. I'll cuddle Pixie a bit instead... *g*

I thought a scene with Aragorn and the Palantir was filmed, and that parts of it were used for Aragorn's dream sequence in the tent at Dunharrow. Specifically the bit where Arwen's Tinkerbell *eg* smashes on the (marble) floor. I seem to remember reading this somewhere. Sorry I can't be more specific...

Anyway, my impression is that originally the shattering Evenstar pendant was something Aragorn saw in the Palantir under Sauron's influence. Sauron presumably trying to make him despair, Denethor-style. And that Aragorn was using the Palantir in the Throne room at Minas Tirith (hence the marble floor), at a rather later stage than he does in the book.

Two points, if this is correct:
First, isn't Aragorn (in the book) revealed to Sauron as Isildur's Heir, and a force to be reckoned with, precisely because he has the strength of will (if barely) to resist Sauron's attempts to manipulate what he sees in the Palantir? Therefore he shouldn't see dying Arwen, should he?

Second - I think I read that since the Palantir scene as originally filmed was cannibalised to provide shots for the dream-in-the-tent, then it's unlikely that they can re-insert it into the extended version. Sadly.

But yay! for the Houses of Healing and Faramir/Eowyn, which I'm sure we'll get more of in the extended version. Movie Faramir still sets my teeth on edge, I'm afraid. I watched the second half of TTT again on Friday, and found his character (and looks!) so distracting that I couldn't concentrate. I know you think otherwise - and I wish I did too!

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

Just lost a lengthy reply to this when my computer crashed

How awful - for both of us!

I thought a scene with Aragorn and the Palantir was filmed, and that parts of it were used for Aragorn's dream sequence in the tent at Dunharrow.

I hope that it was, and that we both get to see it, or to see some of it. I don't think anything we saw in the dream sequence fits with Tolkien's concept of what happened when Aragorn used the Palantir, not in the least; perhaps they changed it radically, or gave it another (cinematic) purpose. The Palantir is one of my favourite objects in the books and I would love to see Aragorn use it.

First, isn't Aragorn (in the book) revealed to Sauron as Isildur's Heir, and a force to be reckoned with?

Yes. He says nothing, but he holds up the sword. He is trying to distract Sauron from detecting Frodo - and he is trying to intimidate Sauron. And he succeeds.

This impresses me.

And no, he shouldn't be seeing Sauron-induced delusions. Perhaps Jackson altered the usage of the Palantir - as I recall, while Galadriel's mirror showed what might happen, the Palantir showed the truth - was a little window to somewhere else. So when Pippin used it, he saw not Minas Tirith in flames, but the Dark Lord on his Dark Throne.

As for Faramir... what can I say? I am happy to adore the man in all his aspects. Who else looks so good drenched in oil?

[rosiespark.livejournal.com]

How awful - for both of us!

How very flattering of you! ;-)

Thinking about Aragorn and the Palantir in the film, it occurred to me that in the Jacksonverse RotK, Arwen is actually dying - therefore it's not a Sauron-induced delusion if Aragorn sees her in the Palantir rather than in a dream. So while PJ may have screwed royally with the Aragorn Arwen story, he still has the Palantir showing "what is" rather than what has "not yet come to pass".

Thinking further quickly proves me wrong. As you say above, Pippin sees the White Tree burning - that definitely falls in the second category. ::sigh:: Not sure i want to go on picking holes in the script. :-(

Who else looks so good drenched in oil?

Hey, I bet Aragorn would, given the chance! And Orlando, as Legolas or indeed as himself! Same goes for Viggo, I'm sure! Sean Bean too, most probably! And that's just the LotR men...
Okay, shall attempt to restrain myself. But you did ask! *g*

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

in the Jacksonverse RotK, Arwen is actually dying

Ugh. I like to ignore that. You're right, of course.

bet Aragorn would, given the chance!

Hmm... nice image, that.