Torchwood: the con appearance...

[fajrdrako]

I enjoyed reading the report on afterleton.com on the Torchwood panel at the New York Comic Con.

I wish I could have been there.

Good news:

"[Referring to...] rumors that Series 3 would be more family friendly and cut down on Torchwood’s infamous racy content. By all accounts at the panel discussion, that’s not necessarily going to be the case... [Eve Myles said,] "It wouldn’t be Torchwood without a little … you know" and she made a droll gesture. "It’s a cheeky program, and it’s going to be sexy … Everything you love about Torchwood, you’ll get double time," she promised.

So maybe it won't be very homogenized after all.

Comments

[51stcenturyfox.livejournal.com]

This coy mention of a possible Jack-Rhys coupling was met with a massive, enthusiastic crowd response.

EVIL grin.

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

I love that!

Wish they'd really do it on the show. Oooh yes.

[cionaudha.livejournal.com]

Aw, Evie Myles is my tv girlfriend. :-)

Euros Lyn also had this to say: "I think in this season the relationship arc with Ianto and Jack is explored more fully and takes us to somewhere we haven’t been before. That’s a real interesting story to follow."

From the guy who calls them a "love story", this is quite promising on that front.

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

Evie Myles is my tv girlfriend. :-)

Yeah. She's a doll. I keep wanting to be objective and end up adoring her.

I think in this season the relationship arc with Ianto and Jack is explored more fully and takes us to somewhere we haven’t been before.

Where? Eeeeeeeeee. This excites and delights me.

Not that we've had all that much information up to this point. We know they dabble, we know they pay naked hide and seek and follow that to its natural conclusion in the hothouse, we know Jack gave Ianto's life meaning... What else do we know? Precious little, I'd say!

I found it interesting to note that in the novel Almost Perfect, though it's lightly and barely mentioned, Ianto does not believe Jack actually loves him. Despite considerable loving behaviour on Jack's part, I'd say.

[cionaudha.livejournal.com]

This excites and delights me.

Right?! It would take precious little effort to show us something we don't know, since we know practically nothing. We guess at quite a bit, and that doesn't bother me like it bothers many people, but it would be nice to see some attention paid to their bond, their partnership.

I find it easy to believe that Ianto would doubt Jack's love. Ianto's come a long way toward manhood in the last season, but he can't have lost all of his low self-esteem in the blink of any eye. I think it has more to do with Ianto's self-doubt than any lack of loving behavior on Jack's part.

It's a feeling I get every time I see them embrace: Ianto drops his head into Jack's shoulder. It always looks to me like he's seeking comfort and reassurance.

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

It would take precious little effort to show us something we don't know, since we know practically nothing.

Ianto's father was a tailor.... He loved Lisa and worked at Torchwood 1. Most of the rest, that I can think of, is surmise.

that doesn't bother me like it bothers many people, but it would be nice to see some attention paid to their bond

I would like to know what their perspective is on it. The terms of the relationship. As far as I can see, we aren't told and aren't given clues. Which in its way is fun - why pigeonhole it? Jack doesn't like labels and neither do I. But I'd like to know what they feel. I also like the way we can't take any of it for granted.

he can't have lost all of his low self-esteem in the blink of any eye.

Why do you think Ianto has low self-esteem? He has been depressed... but I didn't take that as low self-esteem; he had good reason to be depressed.

He shows some signs of low self-esteem but a lot of signs of high self-esteem as well. Why do you interpret him that way?

I think it has more to do with Ianto's self-doubt than any lack of loving behavior on Jack's part.

I would agree, at least as a working premise.

every time I see them embrace: Ianto drops his head into Jack's shoulder. It always looks to me like he's seeking comfort and reassurance.

And it fits in with the paternal-protective attitude we sometimes see on Jack's part.

[cionaudha.livejournal.com]

I'll try to verbalize what I see in Ianto's estimation of himself.

When it comes to his skills, his abilities, his knowledge, Ianto knows his worth exactly. He never devalues his considerable talents.

Spiritually, emotionally, I see a lack self-trust. He's getting a lot better, for which I credit Jack's constant love. But I see a young man who has done and seen terrible things, a young man who has come through a deep depression as you say. One of the awful aspects of depression is that it shows him himself as the enemy: whore, traitor, murderer, failure.

Coming back to life after a depression like his doesn't mean a sudden return to self-respect. After all, Ianto was a whore, traitor, murderer, and failure: with the best intentions in the world, but still, there it is. That's not a pain that can evaporate quickly, even in as bright and warm a light as Jack's love.

I think we see his struggle in Adam's choice of weapon against him. It was a little too easy to convince Ianto that he was capable of horrors. I suspect Adam was using ingredients of self-loathing that he found in Ianto's memory.

And that's why I see some low self-esteem.

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

I'll try to verbalize what I see in Ianto's estimation of himself.


Thank you.

He never devalues his considerable talents.

As I have noticed. I would say he's even proud of them, a little vain about it. Hence my surprise at your estimation of low self-confidence.

Spiritually, emotionally, I see a lack self-trust.

Yes, that makes sense... and matches what we see.

One of the awful aspects of depression is that it shows him himself as the enemy: whore, traitor, murderer, failure.

True. Undermines his trust in himself.

One of the awful aspects of depression is that it shows him himself as the enemy: whore, traitor, murderer, failure.

I like that interpretation because it makes more sense of Adam. I believe that a story of that type has more power if the mind-manipulator is using a person's own attributes against them. For example: postulate that he didn't change Toshiko intrinsically, he just took away her shyness and her inhibitions. He tweaked Owen so he could express the nice guy that had always been in there. He made Jack remember and dwell on a deep trauma from his past - the loss of Gray. But I couldn't figure out how Ianto-the-killer could have any psychological reality, especially when a good part of the story was Jack's certainty that Ianto wasn't a callous killer. So I concluded reluctantly that Adam was using characteristics they really didn't have.

But your interpretation makes a lot more sense. More of a fear within Ianto that he could harm others, than a specific lust for blood.

Thanks for clarifying this for me. Most characters are easy for me to figure out, but for some reason my powers of insight desert me when I'm looking at Ianto.