Meeting Lyn's brother...

[fajrdrako]

Lyn has been my good friend since the 1970s, but I have never met her brother Michael or his wife Heli. They have lived in Calgary for a very long time, and have never come to Ottawa - until this week.

Lyn wanted her local friends to meet them, so she rented the party room at her condo building and invited us all over. We made it a pot-luck supper, and had a wonderful time. It was a bit like a Who Cares revisited.... A Who Cares was a kind of party we used to have every second Saturday night in roving locations, in which anyone associated with local fandom was welcome to turn up, and bring their friends.

Those days of easy socializing are behind us, but we had a wonderful time. There was a vast amount of food, and Beulah brought some delicious carrot cake.

I liked Michael and Heli, too. I expected Michael to resemble Lyn's father, whom I'd met, but he didn't. Nor did he resemble Lyn. He was just... himself, I guess, which is fair enough.

Afterwards, Beulah drove me home and we dropped in on maaseru to share some of the leftover carrot cake with her and maaboroshi. (Amazing, that there should be leftover cake, with that crowd!) We chanced on the beginning of the Kenneth Branagh As You Like It which instantly charmed us (and hooked us) with its multicultural melange of nineteenth-century Americans in Japan, Tudor England dialogue, ninjas, and Star Wars ambience. (And, muttered maaboroshi and I to each other, all this and femslash too. Gotta love Branagh.)

I didn't see more than the first third of it; dying to see the rest.

maaseru said that As You Like It was the first live play she saw, and that marked the moment when she fell in love with Shakespeare and with theatre. And she hasn't seen that particular play since, not even in movie form.

I don't think I've ever seen it at all - I've just read it.

Comments

[filkferengi]

To add insult to injury, he was all peroxided-out in that one. Conjugal company excepted, blonde is not generally my male hair color of choice.

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

I generally perfer dark hair on men, but Francis Crawford of Lymond has converted to me to a delightful tolerance, and perhaps even appreciation, of fair-haired men.

However, I draw the line at Olivier. I saw his Hamlet in a theatre as a teen - remember that I was already madly in love with Hamlet - and I wasn't sure whether to walk out or throw up. I don't think I did either, but it was a close call.

[mmegaera.livejournal.com]

You obviously haven't seen the Branagh version. He was, too [g].

But it was still a much better version. Trust me. Even topping out at slightly over four hours.

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

Well, you know, I loved the Branagh Hamlet, and not just because of Fortinbras. I loved Branagh's portrayal of Hamlet - no, not my top favourite, but good. Very good. Despite being blond. He made being blond look good.

So obviously I can't blame my distaste for the Olivier version entirely on the hair.

[mmegaera.livejournal.com]

and not just because of Fortinbras

Although he was rather lovely, wasn't he [g].

Who's your top favorite stage Hamlet? Top favorite film Hamlet?

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

Fortinbras really made an impression on me in that movie. I'd never seen Rufus Sewell before. Definitely wanted to see him again!

Lovely indeed.

My top favourite Hamlet is probably Kenneth Walsh, who is the first one I ever saw live, in 1967 at the National Arts Centre. I don't remember it well but I do remember being mesmerized.

Second favourite; Nicholas Pennell, probably in the 1970s, also a Stratford Festival production.

Favourite film Hamlet - hmm. Maybe it is Branagh. Let me think about this and get back to you.

[mmegaera.livejournal.com]

Favourite film Hamlet - hmm. Maybe it is Branagh. Let me think about this and get back to you.

After I asked you this, I got to thinking, how many film Hamlets are there? So I went to IMDB. http://www.imdb.com/find?s=tt&q=hamlet Does this blow you away as much as it did me??? I had no idea. Anyway. Branagh's still my favorite [g].

Just do me a favor and don't pick Olivier, Gibson, or Ethan Hawke. Please?

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

My goodness - I had no idea. I want to see them all. I suspect I haven't in the past because of my prejudice against Shakespeare on film, but now I know there are good versions, I'm ready to check a few out.

No, I'm not likely to be picking Olivier, Gibson or Hawke. Saw them. Not up to scratch... Though I think it's indicative that I thought Hawke was better than Olivier or Gibson. Scary, hmm?

[mmegaera.livejournal.com]

There was a very strange version with Campbell Scott, too.

I don't think Hamlet works with any setting much later than Edwardian, myself. Although I don't agree with that opinion for the other plays. One of my alltime favorite versions of Much Ado About Nothing was set in a 1940s USO canteen.

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

"Much Ado About Nothing" is very adaptable to different settings - in the nicest way. "Hamlet" - not so much. I like it best done in medieval style (and yes, my love of the middle ages comes into play there), though I did like the look of the Richard Chamberlain version (Napoleonic) and the Branagh version (Victorian). Which I am revellingin, sartorial-wise. Do you know anywhere I can get screencaps of it?

I thought the costuming of "Much Ado About Nothing" was brilliant, some of the best I have ever seen, in that all the costumes seemed natural to the characters who wore them, and they ranged over styles of several centuries without anything looking anomalous or even anachronistic - giving the whole story a suitable timeless aura.

[mmegaera.livejournal.com]

Do you know anywhere I can get screencaps of it?

The Barrayaran Hamlet, yes [g]. You might try www.branaghcompendium.com. That's the largest collection of Branagh-related photos of all types that I know of. [checks] Eh. Not so much, although there are a few at http://www.branaghcompendium.com/photos_screen_5.html. About half are just face shots, but there are a few that show the costumes better. Google images isn't much better, either. I wonder if the IMDB.... [checks] Nope. I bet someone on the Ken list would know if you asked...

I like the costuming of the Branagh Much Ado, too. IIRC, the same woman who did his Henry V in 1988 and his Hamlet in 1995 did the Much Ado costumes, too. She's brilliant.

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

The Barrayaran Hamlet, yes [g].

Exactly. And though I never imagine Cordelia as looking in the least like Julie Christie, there's a nice Gertrude/Cordelia overlap in my brain now. Funny, that.

Thanks for the link!

Alexandra Byrne. Yes. I just looked her up. She also did Finding Neverland, and I was just saying yesterday to Donna how beautiful and authentic the costuming was in that. The woman is a genius.... Best in the business. Okay, on IMDB I see that the Much Ado costumes were by Phyllis Lawton, who must then be the second best in the business.

[mmegaera.livejournal.com]

Oops. And here I thought I had it all down right -- I can tell you that Tim Harvey has done the set design for almost every single one of Ken's films, Shakespeare or not [g].

No, Cordelia doesn't look at all like Julie Christie (the Shards-era Cordelia in my mind looks like the actress who played Rebecca Fogg in a show from a few years back called The Secret Adventures of Jules Verne -- see http://tinyurl.com/2eoo2s and do ignore the unfortunate costume). But Julie Christie played Gertrude as a strong woman caught in circumstances beyond her control, who took control of what she could and changed her world anyway. So I know what you mean.

You're welcome for the link. And I loved Finding Neverland, including all of its ambiance.

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

I did some google-browsing for pictures of Rebecca Fogg - she's certainly the right type for Cordelia. I'd have to see her in action to see if I think she has the right manner.

I might add that the Cordelia we see (from her own point of view) is nicely different, to my eyes, from the one we see through Miles' eyes later on - reflecting not only viewpoint but how Cordelia changes (or doesn't change) over time, and with new experiences. I wish Lois McMaster Bujold felt more inclined to write from Cordelia's point of view as Miles was growing up - but she didn't, and won't, so there you have it.

[mmegaera.livejournal.com]

I'd have to see her in action to see if I think she has the right manner.

She has a nice sense of authority, does the fancy clothes "little girl playing dress-up" attitude beautifully, and kicks butt with the best of them. At least as Rebecca, she does. I don't know if The Secret Adventures of Jules Verne ever came out on DVD, but if it did, and you like steampunk, they're well worth watching.

I might add that the Cordelia we see (from her own point of view) is nicely different, to my eyes, from the one we see through Miles' eyes later on

Yes, she is. I think Lois does a terrific job filtering characters through both time and viewpoint. I have to say, however, that while I like the early Cordelia from her own point of view, I have a very hard time with the Cordelia-the-omniscient we get from Miles's and Mark's viewpoints in the later books. Esp. in Mirror Dance. The things she says to Mark about Miles in that book are pretty much unforgiveable for a mother to say about her child to my way of thinking, and I've never quite forgiven her comment in Memory about how she thought he would choose the little Admiral, either. Doesn't she know her son at all?

I know this is a minority opinion, however. Many have tried to talk me out of it, but I'm afraid it's here to stay. I don't insist that others agree with me about it, though.

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

My first thought is to say I like steampunk a lot - at least, I think I do. But the first example I could think of that I have read was The Golden Compass, which I hated - though I liked the visuals. Could you call Winter Solstice, Camelot Station "steampunk"? Hmm. I think not. Or maybe it's the steam without the punk.

Ina ny case, I like steampunk in theory, and would like to see The Secret Adventures of Jules Verne.

I have a very hard time with the Cordelia-the-omniscient we get from Miles's and Mark's viewpoints in the later books. Esp. in Mirror Dance.

I tend to avoid Mirror Dance, so that didn't make much of an impression on me. I don't remember much about the relationships between Miles and Cordelia or Mark and Cordelia; I was less than enchanted with the impression that the Koudelka girls all adored or emulated Cordelia, as if she was some kind of feminist oracle. Funny: the relationships betwee Aral and Mark made a big impression on me, and of course the relationship between Aral and Miles is my favourite theme in all the books.

As a matter of fact, I have much less sense of the relationship between Miles and Cordelia, which looks like hero-worship on his part (though of a different kind than his hero-worship of his father), and cool curiosity in hers. We hear about Aral spending time on the floor with his son when Miles was young, but I don't recall anything much about Cordelia spending time with him. I get the impression that, though they love each other, they really don't have much personal contact.

There's nothing odd about that as it stands, but given her passionate commitment to Miles in Barrayar before he was born, I would expect something stronger in later years.

What did Cordelia say to Mark about Miles?

And yes, I had the same thought about Cordelia's "Little Admiral" comment in Memory. I do tend to think she's blind when it comes to her Betan prejudices, but surely she should know her son's character? Better than she seems to, anyway.

And there is such a nice rapport between Miles and Aral, at least to my eyes. Perhaps Lois McMaster Bujold doesn't want to deal with issues of motherhood, but doesn't mind looking at fatherhood?

I love Cordelia but often I find her puzzling. My rationalization is that Miles doesn't spend a lot of time trying to figure out what makes her tick - he doesn't have to - so the view we get of her through his eyes is off-kilter. But even so, even from a distracted son's point of view, the gaps are peculiar.

[mmegaera.livejournal.com]

My first thought is to say I like steampunk a lot - at least, I think I do.

I like steampunk a lot (one of my favorites is The Two Georges by Harry Turtledove and Richard Dreyfuss (yes, that Richard Dreyfuss). But mostly I like video steampunk as opposed to the literary variety.

I tend to avoid Mirror Dance, too. It's a very emotionally difficult read for me.

What did Cordelia say to Mark about Miles?

Book's upstairs, I'm down, but the gist of it was that she wouldn't have given Miles a gun, let alone a mercenary army, OWTTE. It really bothers me that with all her gungho-ness about his potential when he was a baby, she can't at least pretend to understand that she might have had just a *smidgen* to do with how he turned out. It wasn't all Barrayar's fault. And that how he turned out could have been so much worse given everything that happened to him.

But even so, even from a distracted son's point of view, the gaps are peculiar.

I suppose. I think Mirror Dance would have been improved with something from her POV, at least a mental explanation for her attitude towards Miles. I can understand why Lois didn't do it, from a craft point of view, but it's still incredibly frustrating.

The trouble with Cordelia is that her blind spots are bigger than all of Barrayar's.

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

Okay, I'll read The Two Georges. Aside from Jules Verne, what video stempunk is there?

I very dimly remember that comment from Cordelia. I can't explain it - will reread to ponder it further. It seems odd that she doesn't seem to see Miles' talents, his streak of genius - she just sees his character. And I'm not sure how much she even sees that. Does she know about the times he's suicidal? When we see him as an adult, he doesn't seem to confide in her at all, but we don't know that either - because whenever he thinks of his relationship with his parents, he seems to be thinking about Aral and Aral's reactions.

Yes, something of Cordelia's point of view in Mirror Dance or any of the later books would have been welcome.

The trouble with Cordelia is that her blind spots are bigger than all of Barrayar's.

Well said! I couldn't agree more.

[mmegaera.livejournal.com]

I used to have a Thing for the tv series The Wild Wild West back in the late 60s (do not, under any circumstances, watch the 90s movie version of same, in spite of the fact that Kenneth Branagh plays the villain -- it's just too painful). And there was a lovely little show from about 14 years ago called The Adventures of Briscoe County, Jr. that premiered one hour ahead of the premiere of this little juggernaut called The X-Files [g], starring Bruce Campbell of all people. Other than that, there's just not enough of it out there, IMHO, and I would welcome other suggestions from the peanut gallery (or elsewhere). Which was why I latched onto The Secret Adventures of Jules Verne like a limpet and was so ticked off at the SciFi channel when they first bounced it around from time slot to time slot like a rubber ball, then dropped it altogether. It was a Canadian import -- maybe it's still more available where you are.

It seems odd that she doesn't seem to see Miles' talents, his streak of genius - she just sees his character.

It seems rather reprehensible to me, and that comment was sort of the straw that broke the camel's back regarding respect for her as a character post-Mirror Dance. I find her amusing in ACC, but not redeemed.

whenever he thinks of his relationship with his parents, he seems to be thinking about Aral and Aral's reactions.

There is one line, the provenance of which I can't recall, where Miles wonders if he should have been thinking in terms of his mother before him when he set the goal of ship captain, instead of his father. Other than that, I can't think of any time he's considered her that way, although from his comments to Duv about her in their cell in Brothers in Arms it sounds like he does respect her.

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

I've heard of The Wild Wild West - I think I thought it was a western. (And I saw the trailers for the movie, and therefore knew well enough that I had to avoid it at all costs.) I never heard of The Adventures of Briscoe County, Jr. and will look for it.

When I reread the Bujold novels (bound to happen sometime soon) I'm going to watch the thread of Cordelia's character development.

I certainly think Miles respects Cordelia, but his main bonding seems to be with his father. If Miles and Cordelia have 'issues', we haven't seen them - not that I've noticed. They seem to actually have a rather good relationship, except that it seems to mainly consist of a huge blind spot on the part of each of them. Considering that they are both fairly insight judges of character, it looks like wilful collusion.

Or perhaps I'm simply reading too much into it. Maybe they are mutually fond, but not close, not really curious about each other, and happy to be that way, since Lois McMaster Bujold doesn't want to delve into the intricacies of the relationship. Comfortably superficial, and both parties happy to leave it so.

[mmegaera.livejournal.com]

The Wild Wild West was a western, with SF elements (mostly outlandish gadgets), which is what made it steampunky. Briscoe County is sort of the same thing, only set a couple of decades later.

They seem to actually have a rather good relationship, except that it seems to mainly consist of a huge blind spot on the part of each of them. Considering that they are both fairly insight judges of character, it looks like wilful collusion.

I hadn't thought of it that way, but it wouldn't surprise me. Except that early on (in publishing chronology, not series chronology), in Brothers in Arms, Miles does sort of analyze his mother to Duv. I think it's the only time we see him do that. Which is too bad, actually.

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

I think I should reread Brothers in Arms. It's been a while.

I think Cordelia and Miles are alike in many ways, perhaps too alike to see each other clearly. Cordelia lacks Miles' genius and his background, but they're both inventive, brave, and stubborn.

[mmegaera.livejournal.com]

I've been doing a relisten to the series recently (I was making sure my dubbed tapes are in good shape before I send the copies off to you -- speaking of which, email me at megj at nwlink dot com so we can discuss logistics a bit further, if you don't mind).

I'm about halfway through Memory now (Miles is about to come the Vor Lord with Intent at Gregor [g]) so it's all fresh in my mind.

So you don't think Cordelia is a genius in her own right? I tend to think of what she did to foil the mutiny on Aral's ship in Shards and her engineering of Miles's replicator in Barrayar show a genius for at least tactics that she might have bequeathed to her son. I may not like her much in the later books, but I do think she's very intelligent.

As somebody or other said in, I think ACC, nobody's a genius all the time...

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

I'll answer you on the tapes a.s.a.p., but the cost is terrifying!

So you don't think Cordelia is a genius in her own right?

Interesting question. No. I think Cordelia is clever, and resourceful, and courageous, but I don't think she's a genius. Same with Aral. They are wonderful people, but Miles goes that step beyond to utterly extraordinary.

She is certainly very talented when it comes to tactics. Yes, very intelligent, but not that step beyond 'intelligent' which constitutes genius.

I think Miles is a genius because Miles is not only brilliant, but unique - and so are his accomplishments.

[mmegaera.livejournal.com]

I'll answer you on the tapes a.s.a.p., but the cost is terrifying!

I was afraid of that. But I'm not padding what it cost me, believe me. I'm probably undercutting myself some. I have a sneaking suspicion that you didn't realize quite how many tapes were involved [g].

I think Miles would like your assessment a great deal [g]. I do have to disagree with you about Aral at least, if not Cordelia. You'd pretty much have to be a genius at least some of the time to pull off seventeen years of being Regent of a place like Barrayar without making at least something of a mess of it.

I'm inclined to go with Professor Vorthys' assessment of what genius is, anyway. I don't think anyone's a genius all the time. Even Miles [g].