A little Alexander chatter...

[fajrdrako]

I've been browsing a little looking - I might as well be frank about this - looking fruitlessly for pictures of Francisco Bosch as Bagoas so I can make an icon. No luck. But I have found some interesting comments on Alexander in general and Bagoas specifically - apparently they had some sort of sex scene that was cut (though I'm not sure how steamy it got). Perhaps there will be an extended DVD edition with missing scenes added?

Invariably the references are to the male/male kiss and I can't help thinking that a kiss between Alexander and Bagoas is not exactly male/male, it's male/eunuch, though the movie doesn't bother to mention that Bagoas is a eunuch. Does it need to, when Bagoas is first seen resident in a King's harem? Yes, I guess maybe it does, except that the real point is that on some levels it doesn't matter: Bagoas is Alexander's lover and he isn't a woman. "Eunuch" is probably not a concept most modern moviemakers think audiences can deal with, and maybe they're right. Seems a pity to me, though, in terms of the connotations of the cultures we're looking at. Okay, okay, I'm nitpicking. But I reserve the right to be musing happily about the relationships of a eunuch born 2400 years ago. Why not?

Roxana strikes me as very interesting too. I don't know if she really made sense as a character - we weren't told enough about her, and I found myself curious. Did she really want to marry Alexander, and if so, why? For himself or his wealth? Or did she just have no choice, once he chose her? Why did she want to go back to Babylon? It wasn't as if she'd ever been there. And what a journey she had - she's the princess of some hill country, marries this Macedonian and then travels the world with him and few if any of her own people, neither speaking their language nor knowing their culture. Then to end up in Babylon, pregnant and widowed and surrounded by enemies, without many resources - it must have been terrifying.

I couldn't help thinking of parallels with Caesar. Of course Roxana was no Cleopatra, but the parallels hold: Caesar and Alexander both married foreign princesses to the east and each had a son who was young when they died, and then murdered when barely into his teens; that son being the only legitimate (or semi-legitimate) child of either. The big difference was, I suppose, that when the Caesar died, whatever the disputes over his empire, that empire held and survived for several hundred years. Alexander's empire broke up and lasted only days or weeks or months - but the cultural legacy was huge.

I wonder how history would read it if it had happened the other way, if an Indian prince had conquered Asia and Greece and had brought the culture of the Upanishads to Europe in 330 B.C. In the movie, of course each culture scorns the other and thinks everyone else is a barbarian - everyone thinks that but Alexander - but I was surprised that an Afghan princess would think the Indians were uncultured. Was it just me, but were the Indian characters in the movie given a more negative twist than the other nations? Their trappings were gorgeous, but they weren't individually handsome.

Come to think of it, Roxane didn't look Bactrian to me, though I suppose the only Bactrians I know to look at are camels. I would have pegged her as being from Africa. Mind you, I'd have pegged Alexander as Irish.... But Bagoas sure didn't look British, unless that was a stiff upper lip we were seeing in his impassivity?

Comments

[firesignwriter.livejournal.com]

The rumor about a cut m/m scene went around like wildfire a couple of months ago. I recently read an article in which both Oliver Stone and Colin Farrell were quoted as denying that such a scene was filmed. Also, this person here (http://www.livejournal.com/users/kielle/399740.html?thread=1724284#t1724284), whose sis knows Francisco Bosch, mentions that he came back bragging that he got to snog Farrell. I imagine if he got to make out with him he'd've been bragging about a whole lot more than a smooch. ::shrug:: But if that scene should magically appear on the DVD, I'm sure the international squee will rock the world. ;)

Elsewhere in the comments on that same page, she links us to a site with some images of him (http://www.livejournal.com/users/kielle/399740.html?thread=1726332#t1726332), though not as Bagoas...

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

Well, I'm still impressed that Francisco Bosch got the kiss he got, so I am not complaining! And as for scenes on the DVD... we shall see. Thanks for the site images of Bosch - it's a good start.

[monsieureden.livejournal.com]

Oh, I appreciate your spreading the links. :) It's something, at least.

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

It's a start! I'm hoping as time goes on we'll find much more.

[monsieureden.livejournal.com]

But you did find/make an icon of Bosch as Baogoas! Where did you find it?

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

Check out _ming's page at http://www.livejournal.com/users/_ming/140890.html. She made some really nice icons. I found some more pictures of Bosch thanks to firesignwriter (see the note on my LJ here). Still looking!

[monsieureden.livejournal.com]

Oh thank you :)!

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

You're welcome! I always like encouraging artists by helping with visual material (And of course I want these pix myself.)

[monsieureden.livejournal.com]

Can you give me a run down of Renault's Alexander books, in order? :) I might have to pick these up now.

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

I think you should. Here's some info:

The Alexander books -
Fire From Heaven - follows Alexander's childhood, his romance with Hephaistion, etc., up to the point where his father dies
The Persian Boy - the story of Alexander's lover Bagoas, following Alexander's career from the point where he conquers Persia and takes up with Bagoas, until his death.
Funeral Games - What happened after Alexander's death.

The Theseus books:
The King Must Die
Bull from the Sea

Other Greek novels:
The Last of the Wine
The Mask of Apollo
The Praise Singer

I liked all of these in varying degrees; The Persian Boy was by far my favourite of them all (because I really liked Bagoas, and I liked Alexander as seen through Bagoas' adoring eyes.)

Modern novels:
The Charioteer - about a gay relationship during World War II, an excellent novel
Purposes of Love (or Promise of Love) - a flawed book, but I absolutely loved it - about a contemporary (i.e., 1934) relationship between two bisexual people
The Friendly Young Ladies - another flawed book, but I loved it too and it has really stuck in my head - characters and situations that I remember and think of in various contexts. I'm not sure I could possibly describe this one - it's about a bisexual writer and her friendships, lovers, and family connections. Which is a terrible, terrible description of the book. Really.

I read her other novels but don't remember them in the least. (Titles: Kind Are Her Answers, Middle Mist, Return to Night, and North Face)

[rosiespark.livejournal.com]

The Persian Boy is one of my favourites too - along with Fire from Heaven, and The Last of the Wine.

From the contemporaries, The Charioteer really is extraordinarily good. I liked Purposes of Love too - I have a copy each of Purposes and Promise, having been unaware when I ordered them over the internet that they were the same book... Promise is an American edition, and has an extra chapter that ties up some of the loose ends. Not an improvement, IMO.

The Middle Mist is actually another name for The Friendly Young Ladies. Kind Are Her Answers is the one about the unhappily married doctor, which I have in a ghastly American edition that makes it look like a trashy juvenile romance - one of those unfathomable decisions that publishers seem to make!

I'm itching to suggest a reread and discussion, but Really Don't Have The Time. The reason for the emphasis is an attempt to convince myself of this. *g*

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

Now I want to do a massive Mary Renault reread, starting with The Persian Boy. Waaah. The wail is because I Really Don't Have The Time. Hmm, there's an echo on this LJ. I want to work on an Alexander/Bagoas story this evening. It was percolating in my head while I took minutes at the Annual General Meeting this afternoon. Just the thing to entertain me during the the more long-winded reports.

Yes, I thought Purposes/Promise of Love was wonderful. I don't remember which I read - I just remember that it was an antique paperback, with a cover that looked like the original paperback edition it was so old.

Thanks for clarifying about The Middle Mist, which explains why I haven't come across it under that title. I vaguely and dimly recall Kind Are Her Answers, which means I should read it again sometime soon.

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

Following on the info re Mary Renault, there's an interesting description of her life and career at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_Renault.